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12
  1. The American Dream????? # 1
    Gast415

    The American Dream?????

    FBI: Workers saw prisoner abuse at Guantanamo
    Story Highlights•Detainees seen "chained hand and foot ... with no chair/food/water"
    •Prisoners "urinated or defecated on selves and were left there 18, 24 hours"
    •Witness saw a detainee "with a full beard whose head was wrapped in duct tape"
    •Witness saw detainee draped in an Israeli flag

    WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The FBI on Tuesday released documents showing at least 26 of the agency's employees witnessed aggressive mistreatment and harsh interrogation techniques of prisoners by other government agencies or outside contractors at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.
    "On several occasions witnesses saw detainees in interrogation rooms chained hand and foot in fetal position to floor with no chair/food/water ; most urinated or defecated on selves and were left there 18, 24 hours or more," according to one FBI account made public.

    One FBI witness saw a detainee "shaking with cold," while another noted a detainee in a sweltering unventilated room was "almost unconscious on a floor with a pile of hair next to him (he had apparently been pulling it out through the night)."

    Another witness saw a detainee "with a full beard whose head was wrapped in duct tape."

    One FBI statement said that an interrogator squatted over the Quran and that a German shepherd dog was ordered to "growl, bark and show his teeth to the prisoner."
    Another detainee was draped in an Israeli flag.
    The FBI surveyed all 493 FBI personnel who had been assigned to the military prison facility in the aftermath of the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks and determined no FBI agent or support personnel had participated in any of the controversial practices.

    "This thorough internal assessment shows the FBI was not involved in these activities in any way," said chief FBI spokesman Richard Kolko.

    The FBI Office of General Counsel in September 2004 ordered the "special inquiry" into any FBI participation or observations of a series of alleged incidents at the prison camp for suspected terrorists and al Qaeda sympathizers, but the results were not made public.

    The FBI released the documents in response to a Freedom of Information request by the American Civil Liberties Union , but stressed that most of the findings had already been reported elsewhere.

    "Note these documents have been vetted by both DoD [Department of Defense] and FBI, and that FBI believes this or substantially similar information has already been released in this litigation," the FBI said.

    Results of the 26 "positive responses" and several more "not purely negative responses" reported by FBI personnel in the internal inquiry were made available Tuesday on the Web site at www.FBI.gov. (Read the report)

    Other actions FBI personnel reported either witnessing or being told about included:


    Placing a detainee in a darkened cell with the intent of interrogating him for 24 hours straight; the witness reported being told that then-Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld had approved this technique .

    Keeping detainees awake for days on end with strobe lights and loud music.

    Dressing as a priest and "baptizing" a detainee.

    Subjecting a detainee to a lap dance by a topless female guard.

    Interrupting detainees' attempts to pray by putting fluid on their faces and telling them it was menstrual blood.

    Beating a detainee who said he had recently undergone abdominal surgery.



    Find this article at:
    http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/am...amo/index.html

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  3. The American Dream????? # 2
    Gast10602
    Zitat Zitat von dschlei Beitrag anzeigen
    FBI: Workers saw prisoner abuse at Guantanamo
    Story Highlights•Detainees seen "chained hand and foot ... with no chair/food/water"
    •Prisoners "urinated or defecated on selves and were left there 18, 24 hours"
    •Witness saw a detainee "with a full beard whose head was wrapped in duct tape"
    •Witness saw detainee draped in an Israeli flag

    WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The FBI on Tuesday released documents showing at least 26 of the agency's employees witnessed aggressive mistreatment and harsh interrogation techniques of prisoners by other government agencies or outside contractors at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.
    "On several occasions witnesses saw detainees in interrogation rooms chained hand and foot in fetal position to floor with no chair/food/water ; most urinated or defecated on selves and were left there 18, 24 hours or more," according to one FBI account made public.

    One FBI witness saw a detainee "shaking with cold," while another noted a detainee in a sweltering unventilated room was "almost unconscious on a floor with a pile of hair next to him (he had apparently been pulling it out through the night)."

    Another witness saw a detainee "with a full beard whose head was wrapped in duct tape."

    One FBI statement said that an interrogator squatted over the Quran and that a German shepherd dog was ordered to "growl, bark and show his teeth to the prisoner."
    Another detainee was draped in an Israeli flag.
    The FBI surveyed all 493 FBI personnel who had been assigned to the military prison facility in the aftermath of the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks and determined no FBI agent or support personnel had participated in any of the controversial practices.

    "This thorough internal assessment shows the FBI was not involved in these activities in any way," said chief FBI spokesman Richard Kolko.

    The FBI Office of General Counsel in September 2004 ordered the "special inquiry" into any FBI participation or observations of a series of alleged incidents at the prison camp for suspected terrorists and al Qaeda sympathizers, but the results were not made public.

    The FBI released the documents in response to a Freedom of Information request by the American Civil Liberties Union , but stressed that most of the findings had already been reported elsewhere.

    "Note these documents have been vetted by both DoD [Department of Defense] and FBI, and that FBI believes this or substantially similar information has already been released in this litigation," the FBI said.

    Results of the 26 "positive responses" and several more "not purely negative responses" reported by FBI personnel in the internal inquiry were made available Tuesday on the Web site at www.FBI.gov. (Read the report)

    Other actions FBI personnel reported either witnessing or being told about included:


    Placing a detainee in a darkened cell with the intent of interrogating him for 24 hours straight; the witness reported being told that then-Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld had approved this technique .

    Keeping detainees awake for days on end with strobe lights and loud music.

    Dressing as a priest and "baptizing" a detainee.

    Subjecting a detainee to a lap dance by a topless female guard.

    Interrupting detainees' attempts to pray by putting fluid on their faces and telling them it was menstrual blood.

    Beating a detainee who said he had recently undergone abdominal surgery.



    Find this article at:
    http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/am...amo/index.html


    what is your opinion on this issue dschlei?
    kind of boring to post other people opinions, no comments....whats the message?

    i read that our systems works. guilty people will be brought to justice. the "american dream" country works...

  4. The American Dream????? # 3
    jimbomatic
    how you know that they are guilty ?
    they haven't seen a judge and so have not been brought to any justice .....

  5. The American Dream????? # 4
    Gast415
    Zitat Zitat von heiner Beitrag anzeigen
    what is your opinion on this issue dschlei?
    kind of boring to post other people opinions, no comments....whats the message?

    i read that our systems works. guilty people will be brought to justice. the "american dream" country works...
    This was a piece of information, totally free of any opinion!

    However, if the article reflects the truth (and I have heard similar info on the news), it would mean that we are starting to pay a high ethical price for the continuation of this dream! Is it time to sit back and analyze the different paths that would lead to the fulfillment of that dream. It seems to me that this very path brings as down a slippery slope by trying to retain our freedom by stepping on the freedom and human dignity of others (since we don’t know whether they are guilty, and since these types of interrogation are dangerously close to torture which is illegal in the US!).

  6. The American Dream????? # 5
    Gast10602
    Zitat Zitat von dschlei Beitrag anzeigen
    This was a piece of information, totally free of any opinion!

    However, if the article reflects the truth (and I have heard similar info on the news), it would mean that we are starting to pay a high ethical price for the continuation of this dream! Is it time to sit back and analyze the different paths that would lead to the fulfillment of that dream. It seems to me that this very path brings as down a slippery slope by trying to retain our freedom by stepping on the freedom and human dignity of others (since we don’t know whether they are guilty, and since these types of interrogation are dangerously close to torture which is illegal in the US!).

    hello dschlei,

    the thread starter is not free of opinion!

    even then i agree with your post, but what makes america to the greatest country is the fact that our imperfections come to light, go to court and justice prevails. sometimes sooner, sometimes later.
    on top of it, america is willing to learn from mistakes, and willing to change.

    i may add, that i strongly tent torwards victims righst first etc.

    @jimbomatic

    ot: where have you been????

    i believe in our justice system and in my country. having said this, i don't believe we're randomly hunt people down and lock them up.
    they will get their day in court or will be set free.

  7. The American Dream????? # 6
    Gast415
    Zitat Zitat von heiner Beitrag anzeigen
    hello dschlei,

    the thread starter is not free of opinion!

    even then i agree with your post, but what makes america to the greatest country is the fact that our imperfections come to light, go to court and justice prevails. sometimes sooner, sometimes later.
    on top of it, america is willing to learn from mistakes, and willing to change.

    i may add, that i strongly tent torwards victims righst first etc.

    @jimbomatic

    ot: where have you been????

    i believe in our justice system and in my country. having said this, i don't believe we're randomly hunt people down and lock them up.
    they will get their day in court or will be set free.
    Yes Heiner, I agree. The possibly greatest strength of the US and its political system is the unbelievable “self cleansing” ability! I would not know any other country of the world that is able to “flush” political wrong doing out as well as the US system (Watergate is only one example), and to heal after that and continue on its way. Most countries in which the political system went astray needed outside intervention (Germany, for example), and have a hard time to unite again to move forward into the right direction. Even the election in November showed that the American electorate is able and willing to stop a political system to continue marching into the wrong direction (at least into a direction, of which the majority of the electorate thought it is wrong). I surly dislike the current administration, but I am also surly exited about America’s ability to always being able to do course corrections!

    However, it seems that the current administration did hunt people down randomly and tries to prevent their day in court. However, as said above, this seems to become corrected very shortly, and America can be again the “knight in shining armor”.

  8. The American Dream????? # 7
    Gast10602
    Zitat Zitat von dschlei Beitrag anzeigen
    Yes Heiner, I agree. The possibly greatest strength of the US and its political system is the unbelievable “self cleansing” ability! I would not know any other country of the world that is able to “flush” political wrong doing out as well as the US system (Watergate is only one example), and to heal after that and continue on its way. Most countries in which the political system went astray needed outside intervention (Germany, for example), and have a hard time to unite again to move forward into the right direction. Even the election in November showed that the American electorate is able and willing to stop a political system to continue marching into the wrong direction (at least into a direction, of which the majority of the electorate thought it is wrong). I surly dislike the current administration, but I am also surly exited about America’s ability to always being able to do course corrections!

    However, it seems that the current administration did hunt people down randomly and tries to prevent their day in court. However, as said above, this seems to become corrected very shortly, and America can be again the “knight in shining armor”.



    the problem i have is the wording "randomly" this jail is a military prision, and the people held are not randomly selected, they are enemies of the state, war enemies...they were hunted and arrested for specific reasons, for their specific activities.

    while over 50% are let free, (some may say because of world pressure) some of them do get their day in court.
    the war, and off course this jail is not a popular and/ or clean cut and dry issue.
    i guess the problem is that our laws and legal system is not made for war criminals and all the other bad side effects.

    i guess they are called unlawful combats.

    “Unlawful combatants are likewise subject to capture and detention, but in addition they are subject to trial and punishment by military tribunals for acts which render their belligerency unlawful. The spy who secretly and without uniform passes the military lines of a belligerent in time of war, seeking to gather military information and communicate it to the enemy, or an enemy combatant who without uniform comes secretly through the lines for the purpose of waging war by destruction of life or property, are familiar examples of belligerents who are generally deemed not to be entitled to the status of prisoners of war, but to be offenders against the law of war subject to trial and punishment by military tribunals.” (quote)


    here is my thing.
    we're keeping them, we're talking and complaining about them, eventually they are set free, or are getting their day in court...does it has a bad test. You bet..
    but, at least they don't get killed, or disappear like it happens in most other countries.

    I don’t feel that we should worry to much about the world opinion, we have to worry about our security and safety.

  9. The American Dream????? # 8
    MaraC
    Sorry I did not see this sooner. I am not at all sure if this is true wahtsoever, but lets say it is ("... or being told about" - I think thats called hearsay).

    "Subjecting a detainee to a lap dance by a topless female guard."

    Hm, I think if I was a prisoner I'd prefer that to a live execution?

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